Transcript of the program "Cuadrando la Caja," October 19, 2025.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Hello, how are you? It's great to greet you again on "Cuadrando la Caja," a television proposal for debate, questioning, and reaching consensus from the Cuban socialist perspective.
Today, I suggest we approach the topic differently, focusing on a critical aspect of our reality: consumption and demand in times of electro-energetic crisis. Joining me in the studio are Licenciado Welner Collejo, Deputy Director of the National Office for the Control of Rational Energy Use (Onure), and Master in Sciences Joel García, journalist and director of the newspaper Trabajadores.
This first approach to the topic is necessary, and I think we should start by establishing, without much technicality, what is meant by consumption and what is meant by demand.
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: It's important for people to understand the difference between energy consumption and demand. Every day, the news reports in "Buenos Días" discuss energy demand and consumption. Demand is simply the sum of the power of all the devices that are connected at a specific moment. In other words, it has an instantaneous character. Right now, we have a certain demand at this moment. Consumption, on the other hand, refers to the power of those devices or the sum of their consumption over time.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Joel, did you want to add something?
M.C. Joel García León: Perhaps I can help with the visualization. When you buy a device, it indicates what power you consume with that device. What he explained is very easy to visualize: you may have a certain number of devices in your home with their respective power ratings. That represents the demand you would have as a household, but consumption is how much you actually use those devices over a certain period. When the monthly bill arrives, that reflects your consumption. Not all devices are used simultaneously, and not all devices consume the same amount over a given time. This is part of the difference between demand and consumption.
I think it's useful to explain this from a scientific and technical perspective because there is a lot of confusion, and today in the electro-energetic reports, what is often discussed is demand rather than consumption. What is happening today is that with these blackouts, when electrical service is restored, all devices connect at the same time, leading to increased consumption, which sometimes results in higher bills at the end of the month.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: That's where I want to go as well, those moments when the electricity comes back and we all connect our devices at the same time. Of course. The famous consumption peak must have changed; we used to have it well defined. But returning to the topic of consumption and demand, is there a way for us to know and measure what is consumed and what is demanded by sectors, segmented? What does the state sector consume, what does the private sector consume, what about residential? Is there a way to know this?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Yes. Demand is measured daily, every hour or at shorter intervals, in all the substations across the country, with the national electrical system. There is an instantaneous measurement that indicates what the load or demand is at that moment in different sectors. There is also a measurement of consumption at the national level, technically known as bar consumption, which is measured at high voltage levels. All state, private, and residential centers have a measurement, which is typically known through the meter readings. When you sum them up, it gives us billing by sectors; that is, the total of all the meters in the state sector, the private sector, and the residential sector. Today, as a consumption structure, the residential sector consumes approximately 63% of all energy.
The state sector accounts for about 32%, and the rest is around 6% or slightly more from the private sector, which has been increasing its consumption. There are more than 500,000 economic actors who have joined as additional participants in energy consumption, and this is growing. It is a sector that has been expanding, contributing to the economy, and this clearly implies an increase in consumption due to the devices they incorporate, the technologies they adopt, and the services themselves. The consumption of the residential sector at the national level is quite significant—around 63%, as I mentioned. This indicates that it is our sector, yours and ours, when we are in our homes, where there is the highest energy consumption and where many of the measures we propose and always promote will yield quite significant results during these complex times of generation to deliver energy to homes.
M. C. Joel García León: I would dare to say, regarding consumption, that within the percentage of the residential sector, there is also a bit of the private sector hidden. Why? Because there are many activities that the private sector develops within the residential sector, not just stores, restaurants, or open cafes. They are done there, but they are part of the functioning of the private sector. If you have an upholstery shop or a carpentry business in your home and you do that kind of work, that consumes energy, and it is not declared as part of the private sector but rather as residential. Within the residential sector, evidently, there are also some reserves of consumption from the private sector, even if it is not the majority. In the case of the state sector, the impact is significant; it greatly affects workers. Many companies are currently inactive due to a lack of consumption. Therefore, that 32% consumption should ideally change in the opposite direction, right? It should increase. I am thinking of a steel mill, for example, that is not operating and not producing. A functioning steel mill is almost equivalent to powering an entire province. These consumption restrictions in the state sector have greatly affected workers.
Marxlenin Pérez: And they have a cost for productivity, for the fundamental subject of the economy, right?
M. C. Joel García León: There is a cost for the production of goods and services, a cost for workers' wages, and there is also a cost for the inflation that this generates because you are not producing a good, but you are paying the worker to protect them according to all labor protection laws. I think that gradually, the consumption of the productive state sector should be the one that increases, and that the balance of consumption in the residential sector can be reduced through the use of renewable energy sources.
Dra. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Yes, that's why in the question I perhaps should have asked if there is a real way to measure that consumption because we also know that sometimes people look for ways to evade reality when it comes to reading meters or with inspectors. It's a complex issue, whether there is a way to truly know what the exact figures for demand and consumption are.
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Yes, the Electric Union, through its entire corporate system, has methods, resolutions, and regulations that directly allow determining what those consumptions are, which is normally known as fraud. There is a decree regulating this and a structure dedicated primarily to it. The idea is that all the energy generated and all that consumed should be billed because, from a business perspective, it has its effects and evidently, anyone who does not pay for energy will not save it. That’s why we promote efficient energy use because from the moment you start to understand the energy you consume and pay for it, you begin to adopt measures to reduce consumption, which will translate into a decrease in the bill that comes out of our pockets at home. Regarding what Joel mentioned about private sector consumption in residential areas, we are in a process of identifying what those consumptions are within households that today represent a form of non-state management when the main activity is not residential consumption but rather the consumption related to their activities. We are developing actions to identify them and plan for that consumption.
Our country has a planned economy, and that is why we advocate for energy to be planned in both the state and private sectors; it should be planned so that everyone consumes only what they really need to consume. This is what we advocate for in our office, an entity of the Ministry of Energy and Mines. What we promote is for everyone to consume energy efficiently, but truly only what is necessary to carry out any activity, whether state or private, or in the domestic sphere.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Now, it is true that demand has increased. Anyone might think, based on common sense, that an increase in demand means an increase in prosperity, because it is associated with greater access to certain equipment related to home comfort, especially seeing it in that high percentage of the residential sector. In our case, there is an increase in demand, and that is associated with an increase in prosperity. Is it a paradox that we have not yet resolved?
M. C. Joel García León: I believe there is an increase in demand. It is no secret to anyone that in recent years, with certain openings for the importation of equipment and with the rise of the private sector, many more devices have entered the country. Demand is the power you have at a given moment, like a snapshot, and the country is estimating (this is a very personal opinion) a demand that may not be the actual demand that exists today, in 2025, compared to a few years ago. The volume of imported equipment has continued to grow. There are increasingly more electric motorcycles, more household appliances, more charging stations, climate control equipment, refrigeration units… I believe that when conditions allow it, from the perspective of electricity generation, we will know in more detail whether the actual demand we have is what we are informed about daily through UNE reports. In other words, I think this is an estimated demand. In my opinion, there is a greater demand than what we are often estimating in the reports.
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: It should be noted that in the last seven years, over 15 million household appliances have entered the country. A more precise figure could even be provided, but it's around that number. This clearly implies consumption that extends across all sectors of the economy and presupposes an increase in demand. Today we face the difficulty that, due to the levels of impact, we cannot have an exact measure of demand at a specific moment; however, there are quite accurate estimates that give us that demand, this ongoing increase, which allows us to estimate quite accurately the impacts we might have, as reported daily for the public's awareness.
Clearly, an increase in demand and an increase in energy consumption are linked to development. It can be an indicator that measures some level of prosperity. Developed countries consume a lot of energy; thus, there is a relationship with development. To develop, a country also has to use energy because there are many more processes, much more development, many more industries, and many more devices functioning.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: But there comes what your institution, Onure, promotes, right?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Yes. That consumption has to be responsible; there has to be efficient use, and measures must be taken into account in any sector of the economy to use energy efficiently. There must be control, because we not only promote efficient use but also energy control: the energy you have, the energy you can use, controlling it. There are regulations that support this. Yes, development must be accompanied by responsible energy consumption.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: I like the term "responsible." Regarding the figure of millions of devices that have entered the country in the last seven years, is there a way to know which of those devices are high consumers, or is it a general figure?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Within our offices, we have a scheme, which is the equipment homologation permit and authorization for importation, through which we know the devices that enter the country. Likewise, through the agreements we have with Customs, we know which devices are being brought in by individuals, which goes beyond our reach, but we do know those devices, and through studies for homologating those devices, we know their power and consumption. The studies also show us, for example, that in a household, about 30% of the household's consumption is for refrigeration. That is to say, we can also know the consumption structure of devices in the home. How much can be attributed to refrigeration? How much can be attributed to cooking food? To ventilation? In other words, there are studies that reveal which are the main consuming devices, the devices that most impact energy consumption and demand at a given moment.
Regarding what you mentioned about peak hours. It is a time when everyone is using devices, mainly cooking appliances and, evidently, refrigeration devices, although these have a starting and stopping process, or others with inverter technology [which regulates the speed of the compressor in climate control and refrigeration equipment to operate at a constant speed for greater efficiency and lower energy consumption compared to conventional equipment]. There are devices that are connected all day long, which implies even greater consumption. This is bringing it down to households. The same can happen in an industry, although it is a different process and involves other energy systems introduced for manufacturing or other processes, depending on the activity being carried out.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Joel, do you see a paradox in this increase in demand and a supposed increase in well-being?
M. C. Joel García León: Logically, an increase in electrical demand should indicate that the country is moving towards greater prosperity, just as it is a sign of prosperity when one sees that construction is taking place in a country or that a country's agriculture can meet internal needs without requiring high volumes of food imports. There are many variables that indicate prosperity, but undoubtedly when there is high electrical demand, you see a country that has a certain level of equipment and has grown.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Right now you were asking... The peak hours initially were from eleven in the morning to one in the afternoon and from five in the afternoon to nine at night. But when you take into account the blackouts and the daily needs of families, and that some activities are rescheduled due to the blackouts themselves, in this country there may be peak hours even in the early morning: people who, when the service is restored in the early morning, get up at that hour to do certain household activities: washing, ironing, cooking... We are living through an energy contingency. When you cannot maintain a stable electricity service, when there is even uncertainty about the times when there will be service, there is an energy contingency. There are peak hours that have been shifted.
That is to say, at certain moments, consumption spikes that perhaps were not anticipated in the early morning, because the early morning has always been when loads decrease the most, when the state sector is almost completely shut down, when there is supposed to be less activity in residential areas. And today it happens that at that moment there is consumption that may not have been usual before. I would dare to say that there could be two, three, or even four peak hours in a day, due to this level of energy contingency we are experiencing and the adaptation of people to these schedules.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: But this energy contingency, if the term is coined, contradicts a supposed prosperity.
M. C. Joel García León: No, there is no contradiction. We have an energy contingency because today we do not have the necessary electricity generation capacity to meet demand. And that would even warrant another program on why we do not have that energy capacity. What has happened? There is everything being done with photovoltaic parks, which also needs to be explained at some point regarding what is happening with those parks. In short, there are things being done, but all of this does not mean that when you have high demand it does not signify prosperity. I believe it does signify prosperity because when a person buys two air conditioners for their home and buys a new refrigerator and has several appliances to meet their needs (for climate control, cooking, entertainment...) they are taking a step towards a higher quality of life. That is prosperity. Now, the fact that there is an energy contingency and they cannot use all those devices as much as they would like or can only use them limitedly for the time they receive electricity, that is another issue. I believe that yes, high demand is a sign of prosperity; that we cannot meet that demand is already an issue of the energy contingency.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Do you agree, Welner?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Yes. Although, regarding the peaks... It's not that the peak hours have shifted, but the level of coincidence in the use of equipment has increased due to the current situation. Consumption habits in households have changed. In other words, at one point we suggested different times to carry out various activities at home; today, you have to do it when you have electricity service. So, what we are promoting is efficient and responsible use. Well, the noon peak, the one at seven in the morning, as it has always been called, the coffee peak. The highest demand is in the residential sector. That still remains the case. There has always been a demand curve where we had a peak around seven in the morning; the midday average or peak, when economic and service activities coincide along with many daily activities across all sectors; and the nighttime peak, when consumption in households increases due to cooking food and using more appliances, and public and interior lighting is turned on. It is true that this energy situation we have today modifies consumption habits, raising the level of coincidence at a certain moment (when the electricity comes back on, as it is commonly said). At that time, all equipment, whether efficient or not, starts to operate: the refrigerator, the fan or air conditioning unit, lighting if it’s night, cooking food if you are preparing for that moment or for the next day, anticipating a blackout when you might not be able to do it at the right time. Consumption habits in our homes have changed. The same happens in private businesses and in the state sector, where you have to plan the activities you are going to develop and when: from what moment and for what period will I start production lines to make the most of the available electricity service time. That modifies consumption habits, but peak hours remain. In Havana, for example, mainly in summer, the peak was occurring at eleven at night. If analyzed, it is due to cooling loads because of the high temperatures. Between eleven and shortly after midnight was when the highest peak occurred in the province. It wasn't quite like that at a national level. At a national level, it is the sum of all provinces, although Havana has the largest share, about 25 to 30% of demand and consumption. So yes, the level of coincidence changes and that is why there is some modification.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Now, undoubtedly, the contingency —I will use your word, Joel— has imposed challenges that are difficult to solve for the everyday lives of Cuban families. And it might seem conflicting to ask a Cuban family to use energy responsibly at a time when they have the opportunity to enjoy it. I propose this for the third and final part of the program. Briefly, Welner, tell us about that regulation, that standard for importing electrical equipment. How does it work in our country today?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: It is a standard that has its background. The first version came out in 2009, very innovative at the time; in fact, it was one of the first standards in Latin America. In 2009, regulations were established for the equipment that would be introduced into the country, with a precedent during the energy revolution when a certain quantity of equipment was authorized. From there, based on the studies conducted, the standard was proposed in 2009. It was updated in 2023. This standard regulates 13 families of equipment in terms of energy efficiency, tropicalization, and electrical safety, and ensures energy efficiency requirements: that these devices enter the country with a specific level of efficiency. There are indicators that define what energy efficiency is for each piece of equipment. You go to a store and see an energy efficiency label —that's how it is known— which roughly tells you: this one consumes this much, this one consumes more, this one consumes less; even with categories A, B, C, D… As you go up through those letters, the equipment becomes more or less efficient.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Is this standard enforced in Cuba? Is there a complete process only for these 13 families of equipment or in general?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: The 13 are regulated by our office. They are authorized by brand and model. We issue a permit that Customs reviews for importing. How is it done? To market these 13 families of equipment in our country, you must bring a sample. This sample of equipment is tested in four laboratories in our country: the Institute of Refrigeration and Climate (IRC), which tests all climate and refrigeration equipment; the Company for Professional and Technical Services (ESAC), another laboratory under the Ministry of Industries; the Tropicalization Testing Laboratory (Labet); and a specialized lighting laboratory. They are tested, those requirements are verified, and based on the results, we grant the import permit, and the interested party can start marketing. It is also a way to regulate energy efficiency and protect users.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: It would be useful to know what those 13 families of equipment are. But first, let's see what the Guru of Jatibonico has to say about the topic we discussed today on "Cuadrando la Caja."
Guru of Jatibonico:
When you say "thermoelectric,"
for an unnamed mystery,
the cable suddenly crosses,
and people become skeptical.
With this epileptic light,
you have to work very hard
because looking to the future, between shots,
everything dark is clear,
everything clear is dark.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: And since everything dark is clear and everything clear is dark, we are here today on "Cuadrando la Caja" precisely to try to make everything dark clear, to clarify these very controversial issues in our daily lives. Let's talk about the 13 pieces of equipment.
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Refrigeration equipment, air conditioning units, fans, rice cookers, pressure cookers, induction stoves, LED and fluorescent lighting, electric induction ovens, electric toasters, washing machines... I might have left some out.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Beyond the fact that you haven't mentioned them all... Are there other pieces of equipment being imported into the country that are not on that list?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: There are other pieces of equipment being imported that, for the moment, due to their level of impact on consumption and energy demand, were not taken into account. This is a standard that is being updated, and there is a proposal to expand it to include up to 25 pieces of equipment.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: I would have included regulations for high-consumption equipment. Is that considered in the standard for the 13 pieces of equipment? Which ones are high consumers and which ones are not?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Yes, the efficiency levels of the equipment are taken into account. It's not just about being a high consumer; it can be a high consumer and still be very efficient, or vice versa. The effect it may have on national consumption and demand is considered.
M.C. Joel García León: I think we need to keep working on increasing the country's electricity generation. Regulations sometimes bring other issues along with the problems. It leads to bribery and corruption later on. In other words, when you prohibit something, it becomes much harder to remove that prohibition later. I do agree that the equipment should be efficient; the country should invest in increasingly efficient technologies. The technology of fluorescent lights is not the same as LED in terms of efficiency. And as you mentioned earlier, it's very difficult today, given our current situation, to conceive that people will save amidst a contingency situation and blackouts.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: Well, there is already some savings, right?
M.C. Joel García León: In fact, people tell you, "but it's often many hours"... I was on a tour and could see provinces, especially in the central provinces, where I felt it much more, with many hours of blackout. We're talking about up to 20 hours of blackout. The question many people ask is to what extent renewable energy sources can contribute to a solution in generation. We have encouraged people to buy equipment from renewable energy sources, such as EcoFlow or photovoltaic panels, etc., which often generate electricity not only for themselves but can also contribute to the national electro-energy system. Today there are many problems with that because there are many people who want to do it, but they are not compensated for what they contribute to the national electro-energy system.
There are people who even want to access solar panels, and at this moment the country does not have the capacity in all provinces, in all places, to market those devices. It is evident that the population, the consumers, can also be part of the solution to the problem because we have encouraged people to turn to renewable energy sources, known as FRE. The country has a policy to reach nearly 30% of FRE in the energy matrix by 2030, including photovoltaic panels, wind energy, hydroelectric power, and all renewable energies. It is clear that talking about savings in the country during a contingency like this is quite complicated from the perspective of communication, how people perceive it, and the economy.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: That’s why the question is how to reduce consumption without affecting the quality of life of the people. That’s the million-dollar question. What to do?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Clearly, in such a complex situation with such high levels of impact, we must seek solutions. The country is doing that. Today there is an incentive scheme to incorporate and promote the use of renewable energy sources in the country. There is a resolution, number 169, from the Ministry of Finance and Prices, which was approved in June of this year and contains the incentives. There is an instruction from the Central Bank of Cuba that provides opportunities for accessing credit for those who develop projects with renewable energy sources for final use, mainly. Resolution 169 integrates some other previously issued resolutions; for example, the tariff exemption for anyone importing any renewable energy technology into the country: they do not have to pay anything at Customs for bringing that technology. In fact, tariff codes have been increased, meaning everything from a screw to a panel introduced into the country comes at no cost. The resolution is directed at individuals and legal entities.
For actors in the private and state sectors developing projects with renewable energy sources, there is an exemption from up to eight years of profit tax, and with those same profits, they can also finance the purchase of solar panels. There are experiences in Villa Clara and Cienfuegos where an analysis has been done on what is contributed quarterly to ONAT, which nearly allows for incorporating renewable energy sources in the first six months while having access to credit. It is a complex process, but steps are being taken so that those who have the opportunity—though not everyone will have it, of course—have pathways to access renewable energy technology. This period we are going through has also changed ways of thinking. Today, many people are considering incorporating renewable energy sources because they will provide energy sovereignty to their homes, institutions, businesses, or enterprises. They are starting to incorporate equipment from these technologies.
For us, it is important because the energy transition in Cuba, which is what we are advocating for, is the policy that the country is outlining to move towards clean energy. It has the conception that all sectors—everyone—participates in the energy transition, and it is up to us, from our homes, from our positions, from the roles we play, to start contributing.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: When you say "everyone," you mean without barriers between the state sector, private sector, and residential sector. It is one economy, one country, and ultimately one consumption that is calculated, right?
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: Exactly.
M. C. Joel García León: We already have companies in Cuba, such as the Camilo Cienfuegos company, for example, right here in the capital, which has its entire roof covered with photovoltaic panels and is a company that is energy self-sufficient. Its energy is totally stable; it produces for the company and also contributes to the national electroenergetic system. Perhaps that is the way for large companies, but there will also come a time when we have to rely on the national electroenergetic system. I can't imagine Antillana de Acero covering itself with photovoltaic panels; there is consumption that has to come from primary sources, which are thermoelectric plants and others. And you mentioned something interesting: little by little, people have been gaining knowledge about this segment of energy consumption and renewable sources.
I believe there is no country where people know the names of thermoelectric plants and even have details about them. In Cuba today, everyone knows about Felton, Guiteras, Renté… But we still need to gain a bit more in the culture of consumption during these times of energy contingency. I say this with the understanding that a solution must come. The solution must arrive because it affects everything from the economy to the quality of life of people.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: I had several questions, but I think we have run out of time. One of my questions was whether we needed another energy revolution, but in some way you have talked about an energy transition, right? One last thought from each of you to conclude and wrap up. Of course, we still have questions left along the way.
M. C. Joel García León: It needs to be explained; there are many people confused about photovoltaic parks, whether they are a factor that will allow us to improve. In fact, they are often helping to mitigate impacts at certain times. But let's not make the automatic calculation: 21.8 MW from four photovoltaic parks in my province equals 88 MW, and if I was told that my province consumed 88 MW, I've solved my province's problem. It needs to be explained that the photovoltaic park acquires 21.8 MW at a specific moment when the sun is at its full intensity and generates that amount. But the energy from the park fluctuates. When we have 2,000 megawatts installed in photovoltaic parks, it might look much better.
Lic. Welner Collejo Jerez: The country has a government program to recover the national electroenergetic system, and that is one of the actions. From our office, our ministry always advocates for responsible consumption and efficient use of energy during these times we are going through.
Dr. C. Marxlenin Pérez: I thank you both for joining me to address this topic of utmost importance and also great complexity. I leave an open question to those following the program: how can we responsibly reduce consumption and achieve responsible consumption without further affecting the quality of life of the people? There is still much to say about this issue, but I propose that we all participate in finding a solution, not just interpreting it. Remember, this is "Cuadrando la Caja," and we do it from the perspective of Cuban socialism. See you soon.
Transcription: Lianet Caridad Preval Avilés, Ana Elena Hidalgo Reyes / IDEAS Multimedios
In video, the program.
